Re: [lojban] Attitudinal scales and the meaning of {cu'i}

[Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se>]

2010/5/10 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se> wrote:
>>
>> No, I don't think {.o'a cu'i} is a midpoint at all.  I think it's a
>> zero point.  To me, {cu'i} means zero.
>>
>> So {.o'a cu'i} simply means zero pride.
>
> "Zero pride" has negative connotations that ".o'a cu'i" doesn't have,
> and it's not quite the same as "modesty", but that may or may not be
> relevant to what you are saying.

Yeah, "zero" was a sloppy way of expressing what I mean.

> Are you saying that:
>
> (1) There shouldn't be an entry for ".o'a cu'i" in jbovlaste.

I don't care much about that, but I think there should be one
if and only if there is one for {re roi}.

> (2) There shouldn't be a definition for ".o'a cu'i" in
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+Realis+Attitudinals

Yes, exactly.  I have no problem with mentioning it, but I think
it should be more of an explanation than a definition.

> (3) In the event that the LLG ever publishes a dictionary, that
> dictionary should not have an entry for ".o'a cu'i".

Don't care.

> As for (2),  I'm not convinced that the cu'i words are really
> transparently compositional. The wording "zero X" does not seem to
> capture their meaning in most cases, but that may be just a failure of
> the English idiom "zero X". "Zero patience" suggests impatience, not
> "o'o cu'i", "zero relaxation" suggests stress, not "o'u cu'i", and so
> on.

Okay, here's what I mean.

{o'a cu'i} = "not proud (but not necessarily ashamed)"
{o'a ru'i} = "a little proud"
{o'a} = "proud"
{o'a sai} = "very proud"

So {cu'i} kind of means "I don't particularly feel this."

{o'o cu'i} = "not patient (but not necessarily impatient)"
{o'u cu'i} = "not relaxed (but not necessarily stressed)"

It works in the opposite direction too:

{o'a nai cu'i} = "not ashamed (but not necessarily proud)"
{o'o nai cu'i} = "not impatient (but not necessarily patient)"
{o'u nai cu'i} = "not stressed (but not necessarily relaxed)"

Essentially, I want to split each scale into two separate scales (usually
opposite, but sometimes not quite), ranging from {cu'i}, which I consider
to be zero, through {ru'e}, {ja'ai}, {sai} and maybe beyond.

Every scale becomes a question of "how much of this do you feel,"
rather than a gradient between two emotions.

Am I making sense?

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