Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)

Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)

From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <mark@kli.org>

Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 20:43:24 -0500

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Yes, conjunctions in natural languages are not consistent or logical. This is not a surprise.

I found myself musing about what the emphases would be for the two different meanings... Here's what I said in #jbopre:

One is ∪∪- / ∪∪-∪ / ∪∪-∪. would you LIKE cream or SUGar in your COFfee.
The other is ∪∪∪- / ∪-∪ / ∪∪-∪. Would you like CREAM or SUGar in your COFfee.

(wrong Unicode symbols for the syllables, but they're easier to see)

Don't overemphasize the long syllables, and it works. Really. Yes, you *can* ask that question in the sense of "would you like ANYTHING" in your coffee.

~mark

On 01/07/2011 05:52 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote:

Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or" isn't consistent.

"cream or sugar" => OR
"pie or ice cream" => XOR (usually)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost always is XOR -- even with "or", when children (regardless of age) are involved.

From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com

Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 4:33:33 PM

Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:

On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized.

You either don't know English well enough or are just ignoring the importance of emphasizing for the sake of your point.

The question is the same regardless of emphasis.

Also, in the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying "CREAM or SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or the other, but merely that the customer is hard of hearing.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys

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