Re: [lojban] non-ka properties

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

2011/6/20 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
> On 20 June 2011 13:00, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2011/6/20 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>>> On 20 June 2011 10:01, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 2011/6/20 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ni'o
>>>>> A second issue, which has been in my mind since I first considered
>>>>> the kau approach: How does {ka broda} compare to {ka xukau broda}?
>>>>
>>>>    "ka xukau broda" Means "the property of whether or notit is
>>>> broda".  It's actually probably identical (or nearly so) to the
>>>> little-used "jei [broda]".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wait, in a {jei} there is no {ce'u}.
>>> Anyway, the question is, isn't {ka ce'u broda}, when applied to a
>>> specific object, the same thing? From your own interpretation, we have
>>>  "the property of wether or not it is broda" vs
>>>  "the property of being broda"
>>>
>>> --
>>
>>  Yes, those are different.  The first is a binary value, whereas the
>> second is simply "brodaness".  Example "mi se melbi lo mi gerku lo ka
>> crino" -> " my dog is beautiful  because of his greeness" "mi se melbi
>> lo mi gerku lo ka xukau crino" -> "my dog is beautiful because of the
>> state of his being-green-or-not".
>
> I don't get it. Do you mean that {ko'a melbi fi lo ka broda} presupposes
> {ko'a broda}? Or do you mean that a ka-xukau returns a strictly binary
> value, while only a non-kau allows for fuzziness? In either case, I disagree.
>
> Also, I would translate to "in his greenness"
> instead of "because of his greenness".
>
  Yes, "in his greenness" is a better translation of the non xukau
version.  Yes, "xukau" returns a strictly binary value. It's not the
exisitence of the "kau" per se that makes it binary. It's that the
answer to "xu" is only binary, so "xukau" can only be a binary value.
"xukau" basically translates into English as "whether" (The same way
that makau translates as "who" or "what" (or possibly other values,
depending on where in the bridi structure it is).

                   --gejyspa

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