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Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla



As you imply, {selma'o} ({se cmavo}, after all, although the online dictionary didn't turn it up) is only for cmavo, which is the way CLL uses it in the grammar.  {cmene} on the other hand is all over the place, but strictly applies only to string of cmevla (as we would now say) in the grammar.  It appears that, in trying to avoid murdering English, ala JCB, for jargon, we have ended up murdering Lojban itself.  Personally, I prefer English, even twisted, to languages which we don't really understand to begin with.



From: Betsemes <betsemes@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla

According to jbovlaste http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/cmene
cmene:
definition    : x1 (quoted word(s)) is a/the name/title/tag of x2
to/used-by namer/name-user x3 (person).
notes: Also: x2 is called x1 by x3 (= selcme for reordered places).
See also cmavo list me'e, gismu, tcita, valsi, judri.
gloss words: name ; reference word
title ; name
created by    officialdata
vote information    100002
time    Tue Apr 20 19:21:08 2010

To me it means "name". So {cmevla} is the {valsi klesi} or "selma'o"
(if we really can count such words as {cmavo}).

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:56 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I'm pretty sure CMENE is a klesi, and not a selma'o.
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 8:33 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Well, CLL does not list a selma'o CMENE in the list of all the selma'o. It
>> does use selma'o style reference ("CMENE") in two rules, one of them merely
>> the phonological definition of what are now called cmevla, the other
>> defining the multi-cmevla cmene, which are called cmene  and are clearly not
>> in CMENE.  None of the other things that are names, e.g., {la tsani} are
>> called cmene either and even regular cmevla and cmevla strings are called
>> names throughout most of the text (other than the section on the
>> phonological definition).  So, nobody is really sticking to CLL too closely.
>> A nomenclature conference might come in handy.  Personally, I like "names".

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