Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla

Ah, use-mention. In order to mention a name, you have to use a name of that name (or some other device, but we;re in names here). So xorxes has it right here, using English conventions, to talk about the name next *displayed*: la'o gy Starbucks gy he uses the name of that name, here displayed:"la'o gy Starbucks gy". possibly including a bit too much, in the form of {la'o}. Ian avoids the contentious issue of {la'o}, but now double quotes, getting too far up the scale. He wants to talk about the names here displayed: gy Starbucks gy ,djan smit, selpa'i.
To do that, he needs names of them, quotation names under Lojban conventions, namely zoi gy Starbucks gy, lu djan smit, zo selpa'i. But rather than using these he uses the quotation names of these, using metaLojban conventions, and thus talks not about the names he intended but about their quotation names, which refer, of course to other quotation names, not Starbucks, John Smith and whoever selpa'i is.

From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

A cmevla is any Lojban word that ends in a consonant.

Examples of (single) cmene that are not (single) cmevla are: "la'o gy Starbucks gy", "la djan smit", "la selpa'i"

It is useful to be able to distinguish the special word form "cmevla" from the more general notion of cmene. These two concepts used to be confused when cmevla were called cmene, since not all cmene have the form of cmevla.

While I know what you meant, you made a basic mistake: named-things are not themselves names. {zoi gy Starbucks gy}, {lu djan smit}, and {zo selpa'i} are cmene that are not single cmevla.

I was talking about the expressions, not the things named by the expressions, that's why they are in quotes. But you could argue that the articles are not part of the name.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
- From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>