Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Probably 'da'oi' since that is what I thought we were taking as a base, but 
someone used it to impute emotions to others without any empathizing on the 
speaker's part.  So I said I was OK with that under certain conditions (I really 
don't like any of this, but I suppose the language evolves and theory needs to 
keep up).  As for 'ie' as an answer to 'xu do tugni', 'ie' is in that puzzle 
pile: as you noted, it seems a wrong answer when asked to agree about something 
but I think it is a good answer when asked to agree to something.  But (and here 
may be the problem, rather than with 'ie') 'tugni' seems to be only about 
agreeing that.  Even so, 'ie' is not a totally bad answer, since one is asked 
agree about something almost entirely in conflict situations, so that agreeing 
that can be taken as agreeing to the program of one side, or at least agreeing 
with that side to that extent, and so being at least a partial partisan.



----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 12:10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Craig Daniel <craigbdaniel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> John Clifford's argument (with which I basically am in agreement) is
> that, to be in keeping with the stated design principles underlying
> Lojban (and inherited from and in this instance I believe more
> strongly present in Loglan), non-logical structures cannot be used to
> express propositions.

And I think most of us agree with that. (Although his suggestion that
"ie" would be a natural response to "xu do tugni" still has me
somewhat baffled.)

> However, I can see no easy way to define "da'ai" such that it does not
> contain anything propositional,

What is "da'ai"? If you mean "da'oi", which is just like "dai" only it
allows you to also indicate who you're empathizing with, I don't see
anything propositional in it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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