Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 08:13:49PM +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> Robin Lee Powell, On 06/01/2011 19:01:
> >On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 06:52:19PM +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> >>Robin Lee Powell, On 06/01/2011 17:19:
> >>>On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 05:08:02PM +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>In English, logical scope tends to be ambiguous, at least
> >>>>within the same clause. So English "not A, B and C" can mean
> >>>>"It is not the case that each of A,B,C is the case" or "For
> >>>>each x, where x is one of A,B,C, it is not the case that x is
> >>>>the case".
> >>>>
> >>>>Unless it has been fixed by recent BPFK action, Lojban has
> >>>>*exactly the same ambiguity* with regard to logical scope
> >>>>between elements that are not explicitly prenexed.
> >>>
> >>>Show me an example please.
> >>
> >>"su'o broda ro brode cu brodi"
> >>
> >>"na ku a bu e by e cy cu broda"
> >>
> >>Ten years ago these were ambiguous.
> >
> >You're going to have to hold my hand more than that, I'm afraid.
> >Ambiguous how?
> 
> In the case of the second one, ambiguous between the two meanings
> the English version has: "It is not the case that A, B and C
> broda" versus "For each of A,B,C it is not the case that it
> brodas".

I'm not going to comment on what I think it means because I have
problems with na ku and quantification :) and I'm pretty busy right
now, but if you could review the relevant CLL sections and
double-check whether there's remaining ambiguity, and if so show me
where, I'd *really* appreciate it.

-Robin

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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