Re: [lojban] non-ka properties

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>]

On 22 June 2011 18:14, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> And mine is, what function (if any) is the ka-kau?  All of the usual
> functions around this area seem to have specific expressions, so is this
> another way of saying one (or another) of these (and, if so, which) or is
> this a new function (some new functions) altogether?
>

?

The ka-kau would be a function taking the {ce'u} to the answer of the
indirect question marked by {kau}. This is a very convenient way to
express a function, possibly loosely defined.


>
> ________________________________
> From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 3:34:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties
>
> Perhaps the underlying issue is that we're trying to do too much with just
> {ka}? (Then again, this could be my tendency to statically type Lojban
> screwing things up again.)
>
> mu'o mi'e latros
>
> 2011/6/22 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>
>>
>> 2011/6/22 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>> > 2011/6/21 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>> >> 2011/6/20 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>> From the gimste, I would describe a se cipra as a pure ka, non-kau,
>> >>> property.
>> >>
>> >> I consider a ka-kau a pure property, just not fully specified.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I consider a pure-ka a predicate with a variable argument, and a
>> > ka-kau a function. At least, this is what I was asking for in my first
>> > message. Perhaps you mean that the {kau} thing means "whatever
>> > fits here"?
>> >
>>
>> By the way, this is my main point of investigation. Some bridi appear
>> to require a function in a specific place, others appear to ask for a
>> predicate with a free argument.
>>
>> For example, in {zmadu}, it makes the most sense that the x3 should be
>> a function with an ordered set as a codomain. In {mutce}, it makes the
>> most sense that the x2 should be a function for whose codomain there
>> is a notion of extremeness. Similarly for {mleca}, {traji}, {jibni}, etc.
>>
>> In these cases, a pure-ka could be understood as a shorthand for a
>> kamakaujei.
>>
>> On the other hand, the x2 of {ckaji}, {cipra}, {sisku} and {simlu} is
>> clearly just a predicate with a free argument.
>>
>> Stating a {ckaji} is just an indirect way to state the bridi obtained
>> by applying the predicate to the x1.
>>
>> In a {cipra} you test how the predicate is true after substituting the x3.
>>
>> In a {sisku} you search the set x3 for an element that makes the
>> predicate true, which certainly involves one or more {cipra}.
>>
>> Finally, a {simlu} is just the subjective version of {ckaji}.
>>
>> In all these cases. I can make no sense of the bridi when the x2 is
>> a function. All the interpretations of a ka-kau there hereon given
>> appear to be in a direction contrary to ka-kau expressing a function.
>>
>>
>> I hope I could make my point clear now.
>>
>> mu'o
>> mi'e .asiz.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.