Re: [lojban] non-ka properties

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

2011/6/21 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
> 2011/6/21 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>>
>> ro da poi de stuzi da cu ckaji lo ka makau stuzi ce'u
>> "Everything that is located somewhere has the property of being
>> located wherever it is located."
>
> Clearly {makau} can be replaced by {di} or {zo'e} here. If you agree
> that the converse also holds, than we can say that a {makau} in a
> se ckaji ka-makau might be logically replaced by {da} or {zo'e}.

"zo'e" is different from "makau". The value of "zo'e" is something
obvious from context or unimportant. The value of "makau" is (roughly,
there are caveats) the value that makes the bridi true. For example:

- xu do ckaji lo ka ce'u klama lo zarci
- je'u mi ckaji lo ka ce'u klama (zo'e)

"Do you have the property of going to the market?"
"Indeed, I do have the property of going (there)."

Admittedly it's a contrived example, but any use of "ckaji" seems
contrived. In any case, context suggests that the value of "zo'e" is
the market.

- xu do ckaji lo ka ce'u klama lo zarci
- je'u mi ckaji lo ka ce'u klama makau

"Do you have the property of going to the market?"
"In fact, I have the property of going wherever I'm going."

Perhaps a somewhat rude answer, but no hint of the value being the
obvious one from context.

As for "da", it is also different. If I'm going to Paris, then in "mi
ckaji lo ka ce'u klama makau", "lo ka ce'u klama makau" stands for "lo
ka ce'u klama la paris", which is a different property from "lo ka
ce'u klama su'o da".

"The value that makes the bridi true" can be problematic when there is
no value that makes the bridi true.

The opinions are divided as to whether "mi djuno lo du'u do klama
makau", "I know where you are going" has a presupposition that you are
going somewhere, or whether it might still be true if I know that you
are going nowhere.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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