Re: [lojban] Translating "as"

Are we starting up Kung Sun-Lung again: a black cat is not a cat, neither is it black? Admiottedly, some of the things that logiciqans have done to try to deal with string lisk "black cat" or "small galaxy" do lend themselves to this sort of analysis, but Lojban is supposed not to have that sort of problem.

From: la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Translating "as"

On Friday, June 14, 2013 6:41:37 PM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote:

Ummm.. no it wasn't... you said "But in this case we should solve the same problem for conjunctions.
What is {xekri je mlatu}? One black cat or two objects, one black and another one being a cat?"

Unless I'm missing something... but in any case, why do "we have to mirror conjunctions (ju'e, je) and NOI-cmavo"? I say to you "na'i"

There was a suggestion to invent a new NOI-cmavo that would distribute over properties of the same object. Whereas {poi} under this proposal would distribute over individuals.

--geyspa

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:32 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, June 14, 2013 5:04:59 PM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote:

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:24 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, June 14, 2013 3:56:38 PM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote:

"xekri je mlatu" is not any amount of objects. It's a selbri. "lo xekri je mlatu" is an object. "xekri je mlatu" is a description of all objects that are both black and cats.

Okay.
1. How would you describe one object that is black and white but at different time?
2. How would you describe two objects, one black and another one white?

Well, in the first case, I'd probably make that explicit with relative phrases or tanru, but since we are dealing with the question of conjunctions....

That's what JOI are for.
First the might use lo xekri ju'e blabi (jo'u might work as well, but might imply either an always white or always black thing)

For the second, the obvious choice lo xekri je lo blabi.

I'm not that sure about {ju'e} but anyway the question was about NOI.
If {poi} now separates individuals than we have to mirror conjunctions (ju'e, je) and NOI-cmavo.

I don't welcome ad hoc decisions in lojban.

--gejyspa

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