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Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sympathetic and empathetic pains (etc.) are very real; a person experience them
> and can express this experience, perhaps in a way different from a personal
> pain. His expression of this pain might even include a recognition of whose
> pain he is sym/empathizing with (though this is getting a little cloudy) -- even
> if that person is fictional, unknown, and so on. But, in using 'da'oi uu
> Lindar', is the speaker actually experiencing a happiness that picks up on
> Lindar's? The examples suggest not.
Whether the person is actually experiencing the emotion they express
depends on whether the expression is honest and straightforward, or is
fake, mocking, ironic, etc. Sometimes only the person saying it can
really tell whether they are actually feeling what they express or
not, and sometimes maybe not even them.
The example from selkik was:
la .daniel. joi mi pu finti zo da'oi .o'o nai sai da'oi so'i jbopre
noi na'e nelci lo nu za'e ma'orfi'i
"Daniel and I came up with "da' oi" [Grunt from the many lojbanists
who don't like 'cmavo-crafting']."
Obviously he didn't actually hear anyone grunt. He's just putting
himself in their shoes and grunting for them.
I think that's a legitimate use of an attitudinal.
> The point remains that UI can be usefully
> uttered only by the person having the emotion (etc.), whatever its source. So
> talk of other-centric UI reains absurd; the center is always on the experiencer
> expressing his experience, whatever its source.
We probably disagree on the terminology only, not the substance of the matter.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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